Creative Mornings GR: Growth is a Team Sport

Aaron McCall moderates a Creative Mornings Grand Rapids panel discussion on “Growth,” recorded at the Grand Rapids Civic Theatre with more than 200 people in attendance. Joined by Ian Labardee, Bailey Sell, Hannah Berry, and Leigh Ann Cobb, the conversation gets honest about what growth actually looks like once momentum builds—imposter syndrome, uncertainty, shifting priorities, burnout, community, and the small, often invisible changes that shape us over time. Recorded by Green Frog, this episode isn’t about tidy success stories. It’s about showing up, staying curious, and understanding how growth is rarely linear and rarely done alone.

Keep up with Creative Mornings GR:
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IG: @creativemorningsgr

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This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
Revue
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Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
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Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
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Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
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Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
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Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
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IG: @badideasocialclub

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I think I've reached a point this year where I'm just like, wow, like look at all this stuff I did. Um, look at all the stuff I'm doing, like, am I still enjoying it? Like, have I ever taken a step back and really looked at it? No, because I'm been too obsessed with trying to get to the next whatever's next, you know. Um, I literally I didn't even think about it till this morning. I was like looking at my hands, I was like, I literally have it tattooed on my hands. It literally says take time, grow slow. And I'm like, I'm not, I need to follow that. Doing that. I need to actually do that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social Club. My name is Aaron McCall, and Joe and Amber are off the hook for this one, but they'll be back for the next bonus episode. Um so back in November, uh I had the opportunity and absolute privilege to moderate uh a panel discussion for our friends at Creative Mornings Grand Rapids. Um now this was the this was the final event of the year, and they went big. We did it at the Grand Rapids Civic Theater with like 200 plus people in attendance, um, and I got to share the stage with four just absolute motherfuckers of the Grand Rapids creative scene. Um Ian Laberty from Mighty, Bailey Sell from Transfigure, Um, Hannah Berry from Lions and Rabbits, uh, and photographer Leanne Cobb. Now, Green Frog captured the whole thing, and if you haven't picked up on it yet, that's what we're doing today. We're we're gonna play it back for you. Um and the panelists will introduce themselves better um at the top of this thing, so I don't need to do all that. But I do want to remind you um to please leave a five-star review wherever you're listening or watching, because that's a thing now. Also, this thing runs off merch sales and donations, um, and we just launched a brand new website with a brand new merch store. Um, and I know you've probably got all that holiday money just burning a hole in your pocket. So if you want to help support the podcasts, give me a go over to bad ideasocialclub.com and and buy something. Um Okay, here it is.

SPEAKER_07 2:13

Um yeah, my name is Ian Labrador. Um, I am the principal design director at Mighty in the Midwest, and uh design is my background as well. Let me share that if you're on the air. Um big fan of Creative Mornings, uh been a part of this community for uh uh a number of years, and it's so cool to see like this many people show up for creative mornings this morning. It's just great.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Hi, uh my name is Bailey Cell. Um I own and uh founded Transfigure Print Co. Uh, which is a queer and trans-owned and operated uh print shop, and then we also have uh which we started last year, Transfigure Shop, which is a physical space in uh Creston.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I'm Hannah Berry. I run Lions and Rabbit Center for the Arts. We used to be in that rainbow building on Plainfield, if you are familiar with it. It was a wedding venue that had floor to ceiling, local artwork, and then we had events. We moved out of it like after COVID, we fulfilled our contracts, and then we moved out of it. Um, but we did that so that we could focus more on public art. So we do everything from sculptures to installing um different things on buildings all over the place, and then street fairs.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

And good morning. I'm Leanne Cobb. I'm uh Thanks. Um I'm a creative and photographer uh here in Grand Rapids, and I used to photograph Creative Mornings for like seven years. And so same thing. This is so exciting to see. I love this community here. I absolutely love the mantra. Everyone's creative, I believe that. And um and oh god, I'm really good. Bad at interesting. Is that thanks?

unknown 3:58

Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

So let's talk uh growth, right? It's it's messy. It's uh it's certainly not a linear thing, uh, but it's kind of also the only way that uh anything happens new ever. So uh yeah, let's get into that. Let's talk about the stuff that's maybe a little uncomfortable, and the stuff that makes you feel weird, um and the stuff that changes you. So um growth is hard. And trying new things is scary, but standing still is death. So I'm sure that it's much harder, and I'm sure that it's much more stressful than you make it look, Leanne. Uh but how do you give yourself permission to break out of your rhythm and say yes to new experiences that take you to new places creatively, personally, physically? What is that?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I love these questions so much. Um growth is hard, absolutely, but I have found that growth gets a lot easier when you take the pressure off of it. So if you don't know how to uh what would it be, to like initiate growth in your everyday practices, which of course, when you're in your routines, especially in your creative flows, like it might seem really hard to shake it up. So, what I like to do is try growth in avenues that have nothing to do with my livelihood or my personal craft or my growth as a creative. Because as a creative, you guys know that creative problem solving comes in more than just the one avenue that you work in. And so as soon as I take the pressure off of me to succeed, because my expectation is I should be good at something, and I try something with the expectation of I don't know shit about this. And as long as I do it, I've learned something, then I find that growth happens naturally. So that once I'm under pressure to do something that would be a bigger version of myself or handle something that maybe seems harder than usual, I have the experience of trying something new or calming down or realizing that, like, ha, there's other ways to go about problem solving. And it just seems a lot easier than having that pressure on you all the time that you should be better, you should do better, you can do better. Like, just try. And then if you fail, like, okay, what's it matter too? Like it's it definitely makes it easier.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

I feel like maybe you have a very specific example, maybe something Italian.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

I I think the the example, yeah, I know. I was I was I was nervous this was gonna no um. So I as a creative, I recent so the oh whoa, so sorry. All right, hold on. The coffee just kicked in.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Um start pacing any second.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

No, literally, I was nervous I was gonna do that too. Oh man. Okay, so really uh when I was up here speaking last for Creative Mornings, I was up here with a uh business partner about a new brand that we were launching. And it was always an experiment. Like we were really coming at it from another, from another angle, from an industry. It was an androgynous swimwear company. We were trying to be ethical, size inclusive, all the things that are really almost impossible in today's world to manufacture feasibly. So we closed it earlier this year, this summer, which was a super bummer, but like we also knew that we could, we really couldn't take it any further. So, you know, um it was it was bittersweet, but still like, no, we did what we could. After that, though, I was finding myself with a little bit of extra free time. And a friend of mine recommended to me a scholarship opportunity to study the Italian language immersively in Italy for a month. And it's a Grand Rapids scholarship that comes out every year through the Grand Rapids Sister Cities, and I applied and I got it. And so I spent the month of September learning a new language in Italy amongst a bunch of other international students, and it was really hard. Um everyone else spoke at least a second language because English is pretty ubiquitous, but I did not have any concept and hadn't learned a language since like really grade school. So it was hard, and I was certainly the worst at it in the class, which was fine. But also like it was easier to not get frustrated at my ability because I knew, like, oh, well, I'm gonna suck at this, you know. Like if I had gone and taken an art class in Italy and sucked at it, I probably would have been really mad. So it was great though, because it was a challenging thing. And then when I was able to succeed at it even a little bit, it felt like a huge win. And then traveling is hard. And like there's so many other aspects of like being that far away that are they're challenging, they're routine disrupting, but like also every single time I was met with a challenge and then overcame it, it was like a fantastic reminder of what we actually are capable of when we're out of our everyday routine. So it was a really great reminder of like, oh, you know, like who knows what opportunity will come next, but I think I'm ready to meet it. And if it works, it works. And if not, I know how to pivot. So yeah. Thanks for asking.

unknown 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Hannah, how are you? Good morning. Um, I kind of want to talk about lions, well, I want you to talk about lions and rabbits. Uh, because by now, lions and rabbits has become an institution in Grand Rapids. Um, so I'm curious about how your vision for Lions and Rabbits has evolved from inception to where things are today.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I will say that that event space made a lot of money. So it was not the best idea to close an event space, but um it wasn't what I wanted to do. So if you take where I was and then you put the event space on it and then all the arts, that's where I think that I kind of lost what lions and rabbits uh should be. But the model in which it was created on was sustainable. So when we became a for-profit, or when we moved from the for-profit into the nonprofit space, that was a massive learning uh curve for me, and it still is all of the time. But what I've been able to learn from it is that we don't we don't need more artists. I know everyone is creative, and I very, very, very much value that. Um, but we need more people in facilitation, more people who are ready and willing from cross-sector to come in and help creative because we're flying our planes up here and they're flying their planes with everybody else in the right in their solo planes, we're in our big planes.

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Um totally get it.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Right? Like everyone's like, you're flying a plane up here, and I'm like, okay, so get me somebody in finance, but um, or a lawyer. Um but that being said, it's because we're as creatives, we're working for social missions. So your social mission might be something completely different than mine, completely different than yours. But I do know that you are able to solve some social missions, so are you, so am I. So if we can get these people to come into the fold of creativity, then we are going to actually start to see the change that we want to see. Um, I thought you were gonna go with the androgynous uh swimmer and go, but then when I was in Italy, I was able to do this with that. And then I was like, well, yeah, so what is a global vision for creativity? And that's kind of where I've always been with lions and rabbits. Um, whether Grand Rapids thinks it's a Grand Rapids thing or not, this is our home. We love it here. Um, but we also love other communities and want every community to have the same backbone.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Uh, where else does the reach go to?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

We are in Detroit, Chicago, and like Northern California a little bit right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Um and I will say all of these people are people who lived in Grand Rapids who were not able to do what they wanted to do in Grand Rapids and now are doing it through lines and rabbits in their hometown with small business sponsors, large corporate sponsors, grants, all of that in between. When I say nonprofit is a different world, it is. So if you are thinking about opening one, I would tell you to think strongly about finding one that has the same mission as you do, because they probably have multiple different resources and it's not starting off from scratch. Um, and then the other thing I'll say about the nonprofit and the for-profit thing is when you start your LLC, your LLC may be giving out to the world, but it's really giving to you. A nonprofit is to give out to the world, and then if it's successful and everyone is doing well and everything in between, then the money comes back in. So if you think about starting a nonprofit with 10 people and you are not going to pay anybody, it's probably gonna stay that way. So the the the ability to become sustainable sometimes is not really, or like what your long goal is might actually have some accreditation to like what kind of tax bracket or whatever you want to set up too.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

I think I think a lot like lions and well, actually nothing like lions and rabbits. Uh uh Transfigure has evolved in some really interesting ways too. Um but not just as a brand. I I I think you know it's also an extension of who you are, Bailey. Um and and I think knowing you uh uh as well as I do, that line is blurry as shit. Right? Is that fair? Yeah, yes. So so uh Transfigure has kind of become this hub for community and creativity and belonging. Was that was that always the goal?

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Um, I think that was the goal. Um, I don't think I had any idea and how I wanted to get there. Um, so it's kind of been a surprise to see how quickly I got there and um what it's been like now that I'm here. Um I think when I started out, uh my only um plan was to find a way to merge my love for printmaking and what I was making at school while I was at Kendall with um my love for the trans community and the queer community that I have, you know, found myself a part of. And I I wanted to find a way to merge those two things and you know, create a life out of it, create a career out of it. Um so I started by, you know, just making shirts and selling those. Um I introduced kind of uh our biggest part of Transfigure is um the mutual aid aspect of it. Um and I think the the further I got with you know creating stuff for myself, I realized um the bigger picture for me was to um create a space that I could share with other people. Um I think personally um I'm a person who doesn't really enjoy the spotlight. I don't like I'm very uncomfortable right now.

SPEAKER_06 15:27

You're in the right space. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Um so uh I think long term I really wanted to um have a business that I could kind of you know be in the background of but still operate and be able to yeah, create a space that I could share. And so, you know, I um started creating this platform uh and started introducing a lot of different um initiatives that I could uh find ways to um work with other people and give them more of the spotlight than myself. And a lot of those things um ended up being, yeah, our we created a mutual aid fund that we uh donate uh funds directly to trans and queer people. Um we donate um also on top of that monthly to different nonprofits and organizations all through our our sales from our shirts. Um we uh uh opened up the the store last year um in Creston. Um so that's a hub for you know creatives as well. We have probably close to 200 different uh artists and um small businesses that we sell their merch in the store. Um and then recently too, I guess not recently, but three years ago, we started something called Transfuse. We collaborate with the Grand Rapids Trans Foundation um to create which what was originally just an artist market, um, but it has transformed into an artist market. Um we have you know entertainment, we have drag and um musical entertainment, um, we have food, local food, drink. Um this year we did it at the um the farmers market and it was our biggest one yet. It totally exceeded every expectation we had, and that was amazing. And I think um, yeah, it uh definitely to go back to your question. I think um I kind of I had an idea of you know what I liked and what I wanted to do. I don't think I knew how to do it, and now that I have done it, I'm just like, whoa, like I didn't realize that was possible. I'm glad that I'm here. Um, but I also really I think my biggest thing about Transfigure is I really enjoy that I've I've cultivated this space that you know I don't have to be at the forefront. Like that's not the point. Like the point is to to share the space that I've the platform that I've created, this big platform, you know, this big social media presence, these physical spaces. Um, and I can share that with other people and you know give my time and my money to people that that need it. I love you for that.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Um I don't have a segue, so so um but you know we've we've all had to grow and evolve as we think about how we think about and react to uh social and uh political moments. Um and Ian since becoming partner at Mighty. Is that how new is that?

SPEAKER_07 18:35

Oh, that was 2019.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Uh okay, so I don't have to say congratulations, you're fine. Yeah, it's been a minute. But how have you navigated that responsibility with your team externally and also what has that growth been to you?

SPEAKER_07 18:50

Yeah. Yeah, so when so when I spoke at twenty in creative mornings, it was 2017, so this was just not not too long after that. Um and there was there were a few things happening in the world around 2017, 2018, 2019. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, a couple things stand out. Um you know, I think I think um I'm a person that has always liked I like to operate with a plan. And um, you know, I feel like moving into that role around that time uh stretched me a bit because um there wasn't, you know, we didn't really, we don't none of us really had a great plan, none of us really had a great playbook for navigating both the social moments of that time, but also kind of what was happening um with the pandemic and all of that, and trying to understand how to how do we lead, you know, in that moment. And um, you know, I think I think one of the things that I really took away from some of that transition in my own experience was um growth doesn't always happen in goal-oriented ways. You know, sometimes it's we can be really motivated by a specific plan and goal, but sometimes um life just happens and we have to, you know, navigate in the midst of what we aren't sure of. And that's actually a a great opportunity for growth to happen. Um, you know, for our team, a lot of it was really trying to understand, and I think even you know, as leaders of any group of people in that period of time, you kind of had to figure out what um what's what's the most important thing for us to speak into and be certain about right now. Um, but I think for me personally, a lot of it had to do with understanding that um it's okay to to say I don't really know. And it's okay to say um I don't really have the perfect plan or clear action right now. Um, and being okay with leaning into some curiosity in that moment. And um that that's actually something that I think I hope that you know a lot a lot of people were able to take away from that time um because it's been something that I think has really helped um me continue forward in that way. Um understanding that uh you know, we we sometimes can learn the most from people that are around us when we say, I'm not really sure. Here's what this here's what this means to me, you know, in the moment right now, and here's what that looks like. And then I think the other thing um that uh was helpful in in that that transitional time is going back to sort of the things that I hold to true to to be values and uh that mighty holds to be values. Um sometimes in in moments where things are new and uncertain and unclear, um, it's just simply going back to okay, what do I know to be true right now? What do I hold on to in terms of of of value and meaning? And then how can I just operate from that little bit of clarity and understanding and um allow people around me to kind of embrace that and understand that and and grow along with me?

SPEAKER_04 21:53

So how did you how did you even get to that way of operating? Because that that can't be a natural thing. That just happens.

SPEAKER_07 22:01

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I for some probably it is. I think for for me, um, it's practicing just humility and being okay with like exposing humility to people around me. That's it, that takes a certain amount of vulnerability, I think, which um I'm historically not great at. So that was a an area of growth that like pushed me a bit. How do you be vulnerable with people that um you're charged with sort of you know being responsible for? Um, that's a challenge. Um, but I think if you can if you can approach that with with humility, uh it gets you a long way. One other thing I'll say about curiosity is that um I think people also um are very dialed into fake curiosity. Um, I think it's really you have to be really careful to to be genuine when you're curious. Um, it's really easy to sometimes try to lead someone to something through sort of this like disingenuous curiosity. Um, and so I think it's really important to check yourself and make sure that as you're navigating that space, um, your curiosity comes from like a an honest place. And that starts with um recognizing that you don't always have all the answers, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

I love that. Um on vulnerability, um Leanne, as a photographer and a creative and a person, talk to me about vulnerability and showing up fully um and and when you recognize that as like a must.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah, well, I will say doing portraiture vulnerability is like the perfect way to level the playing field between you and your subject. And so it's for me, it's a great analogy. It's a way for me to really practice vulnerability, authentic vulnerability, this sense of like, ooh, like how are you checking in, how are you? Um but even uh what was I gonna say? Vulnerability, hold on, thank you, sorry. Oh, okay. No, this is good. Um I'm so nervous. Um shake it off, shake it off. No, thank you. Oh my god. Okay, so the thing about being vulnerable, right? Like vulnerability has a bad rap because really it it means that you're you're easily hurt. Uh and and I think that's only part of what I would consider the definition or the possibility. If you're vulnerable and you're easily sensitive and you're easily someone who's prone to, you know, negative emotions or negative reactions to something, that also means that you're also prone to extreme highs in emotions and excitement and awe and curiosity. And I think being vulnerable means that you can be both of those things and you can tap into other people's empathy in a way that like allows for that authentic vulnerability to actually be helpful. Like, oh, I I can see why why you might be nervous. Well, don't worry, I've got you. And and so I don't know, I I think um really just shedding shame away from that word is a really important uh practice for creatives because our sensitivity is what makes us so good at picking out what is the creative thing we should do, how we problem solve, how we how we think critically about the world. And so, yeah, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's also something we're gonna have to learn over and over and over and over again. So you're not gonna get it right every time. Don't beat yourself up about it. That's why they call it the creative process. And um, yeah, it's it's gonna be lifelong. And how exciting is that?

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Well, and with and with growth and vulnerability comes pains. So you know, every single one of us in this room is kind of on our own unique path. Um and it's really, really easy to get lost. Um Hannah. How do you recognize when you've drifted? Uh and then how do you kind of pull things back into focus?

SPEAKER_00 26:09

I uh have been struggling with this question because I am a drifter. Uh like by nature, I am like, well, that aligns with creativity, so let's go. Um and Leanne and I were talking about this behind the curtain of like we say yes to opportunity, and we've known each other for quite some time. So if the opportunity presents itself there and we can figure out a way where there's a will, there's a way, that is what we'll do. Um, but I would say the the drift is more on the team, um, I would say, or like the people behind the work, because we are supporting so many creative people. And yes, not every project is awesome for every artist, but there are certain times where the people who are working street parties are working 24-hour two-day work weeks, but then an entire work week on top of it. And does that really work for them? Um, and then they're supposed to go do something completely different the next day. So I would say the mission drift hasn't really happened. I would say it's solidified itself stronger than ever in this last year. But the ability to keep a sustainable running operation in West Michigan that does do a lot with creatives who are advocates, sometimes for things that people don't want other people to advocate for. So, so really being able to lean in and be vulnerable and say no when it is just not gonna work out, and yes, when it's gonna work. So a lot of the last year has been taking the things that haven't worked and saying, well, did this not work because it financially didn't work? Or did it not work because the community didn't like it? If it was because it's financially not working, well, then that's a different decision to talk about. If it's because the community didn't want it, then that is where our focus needs to be because that's the advocacy work that Lions and Rabbits needs to be working in this next year. So a lot of the work that we do is pushing the needle forward. Discovery work is what we call it. Um, but it's so that creatives can then have their platform. And we didn't used to do that.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Bailey, talk to me about the little wins.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Yeah, I was thinking a lot about that question last night. And I think um uh one of the great things about uh doing Transfigure and uh being able to give so much is seeing how that is received. Um and I think um little wins for that means you know, working at the the store and seeing um, you know, kids come in. Sometimes they come in with their parents, sometimes they wander in on their own. We're right down the road from the high school. So there's a yeah, there's a lot of kids that come in and um just to see, you know, how happy it makes them to see the stuff that we have in the store that you can't, you know, really find many other places in Grand Rapids and uh yeah, to see just like the happiness it brings them. I think that's um something that really keeps me going through the days where I am like, what this is this is a lot. Um but uh so yeah, that I mean we see that a lot at events too, like Pride events. Um a lot of kids walk up to us and just tell us how happy they are to be there and see our stuff and um yeah, some bigger ones. I mean, yeah, like I mentioned the transfused market. I think um what was really clear to me after that was um we need stuff like that in Grand Rapids. And um I think hearing so much from not only the vendors um but just people that came as well, just like really appreciated what we were able to do and the space we were able to provide. Um, I mean, I I I I love all of that. I love all of that feedback and um it yeah, just like stuff like that, I think really keeps me going. And um yeah, just I appreciate all of the the positive, um mostly always positive stuff that I get from from doing Transfakure.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

What about everybody else? Little wins? Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah. Yeah. Uh as a creative person that goes into a lot of rooms with uh some top dogs, uh being able to understand the lay of the land is really important, I think. And so a little wind to me is I just was with one of the major grocery stores in Detroit talking to them about the food desert, talking to them about where other grocery stores will not put stores, talking about heated sidewalks from refrigeration stations, and they are now in conversation with that neighborhood about putting a grocery store in there. So it's it's really the arts are I mean, that's and the reason we're working on this project is through the American Cancer Society. So if you're in a meeting and then in a meeting and in a meeting, that's seven different creatives that can be impacted.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

So love that. You guys got anything or or or did I break you?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

No, I think I mean sometimes all we have is little wins. I mean, you're not always gonna get a big win. And I think it's easy for us, because we are very critical about what we do and we have to be, um, to kind of forget to pat ourselves on the back. So yeah, embrace the little wins. It's it's okay.

SPEAKER_07 31:22

Yeah, I I will echo that 100%, Leanne, because I think that um it's like a huge part of growing is reflecting. You know, like if you don't ever step back and reflect, then it's kind of sometimes, at least for me, it's it's hard to like observe growth happening in myself. Um and sometimes, yeah, all you have are are little wins. But, you know, taken taken over time and accumulation of those things, you can really start to all of a sudden understand, oh, that's the path. That's trickery, that's that's growth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

I got I've got one more note on that because it reminded me, which is my favorite analogy, and I think you guys will appreciate it. And it's like when you're working on something, you're looking at the details, right? Like you're you're this like if it's a painting, you're this close to the canvas. And sometimes it's really hard if we haven't trained ourselves to like put the brush down, take a step back from the doorway and look at it as a whole. And if you don't know how to do that and you can't remember to do it, bring somebody in the room, right? Like this is why community in so many ways matters, friends that you can trust, people that know how hard you were working on those little details, because they're gonna be able to step back, see the whole thing. And maybe they'll give you some insight that you just couldn't see in your current moment. And especially if you're a freelancer, you don't always get that feedback. So you need to seek it out and consider it a uh uh a strength to be able to say, like, I need, I would love your input. So your community matters, the people you include in your life matter, and if they know you well, then they're going to advocate for your growth.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

So one more. Before we wrap things up, what's what's one thing that each of you want to leave these lovely people with? I said it.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Um I think something that's been really prevalent for me this year um is to just really take your time. I think with growth specifically, it's um it's hard to not always be looking for what what what's the next step, you know, how to climb the ladder, how to make the most money, how to progress your business, how to do all these things. And it's easy to do that super quick. And I think I've reached a point this year where I'm just like, wow, like look at all this stuff I did, um, look at all the stuff I'm doing, like, am I still enjoying it? Like, have I ever taken a step back and really looked at it? No, because I've been too obsessed with trying to get to the next whatever's next, you know. Um, I literally I didn't even think about it till this morning. I was like looking at my hands, I was like, I literally have it tattooed on my hands. It literally says, take time, grow slow. And I'm like, I'm not, I need to follow that. I'm not doing that. I need to actually do that, you know? Um so yeah, I guess I would say definitely take your time. It's okay to grow slow. You don't always have to move at a fast pace. That's what that's what they want you to do, but you don't have to do that. Um and so yeah, that's that's what I would leave people with.

SPEAKER_04 34:26

You have any you have any tricks to like course correct? You just lean into the skid.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Yeah, just like yeah, just tattoo it on you and then look at it occasionally, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Anna, Ian, you guys got anything?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Um I will say I would like to leave everyone with hope. Um, but bipartisan relationships are crucial right now. I think that that is the biggest thing that we need to work on uh because nothing is going to get solved on one or two or three sides of whatever party. Um and so if we can collectively, as Grand Rapids creatives, redefine what we believe arts and culture means and then ping it up to the state, then maybe we'll start to see the state of Michigan working together and creatives being able to thrive throughout the entire state.

SPEAKER_07 35:26

Um I think those are those are great answers. I think for me, um the thing that I would probably leave folks with is this idea that um clarity is is actually relatively rare. And that's something that I feel like I was disenfranchised about for a long time. I I operated for a long time thinking that you know my own lack of clarity or uncertainty was something with my own growth pattern. And I think the truth is that it's actually more often than not that we we navigate things from a place of uncertainty and lack of clarity. And um I think that's okay. I think we can still navigate the world um in a way that is uh intentional and directed. It's a little bit like using a compass instead of GPS, which might be an absolute, you know, a compass is a tool that we have in the moments of uncertainty where we have to sort of navigate the world of things based on what we have right in front of us. And um, I think understanding that you can do that if you have just enough understanding of your own values and what's important to you. And then the other thing I would say is that growth is a team sport and it takes people around us, like kind of like you you were talking about, Leanne and Hannah, you're talking about um and Bailey too. Um we need people around us to help us both identify moments of growth for us, but also to help us measure our own growth. And then I think we have to also pay attention to the the team members that are internal to us to help us understand how our rhythm needs to change at certain points in order to actually grow and actually um make those little changes, like you talked about, that become the little disciplines that help us take those steps forward that all of a sudden when we reflect and look back, we see uh that was the path.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

So that's great. This has been super fun for me to sit up here with with you guys who you know I love and respect most of you. And um but that's gonna do it for us. Um give your panel clafford them.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Bad idea social club is an independent podcast made possible by donations, merch sales, and reviews.

SPEAKER_05 37:57

Graphic designer Aaron McCullough is our host, music editor, and writer, co-hosts of Amber Gray and me, Joe Madison.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Music by Mike Mains and the branches. Follow along wherever you get your podcast.