Hannah Berry: Do Something About It

Hannah Berry (artist, founder of Lions & Rabbits) sits down with Aaron McCall to talk about community, creativity, and the work happening between the cracks. She gets into turning art into real community impact, building something without a clear roadmap, and why creative people are often the ones holding solutions that nobody is listening to yet. They talk about collaboration, economic and community development, the tension between intention and execution, and how slowing down, letting go of control, and trusting the right people changed everything.

Keep up with Hanna Berry:
lionsandrabbits.com
IG: @bananasnhannahs
IG: @lionsandrabbits

——
This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
Revue
——
Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
——
Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
——
Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
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Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
——
Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
badideasocialclub.com
IG: @badideasocialclub

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:53

It's like that rest mentality. I get it. Like, we've dealt with all this shit, but like, not to be morbid, our houses aren't being bombed. So, like, kindly fuck off again.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Getting part of him and all these noises in my head.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

You know, uh, something I love about parenting is every once in a while you'll put on a shirt and something like this falls out. Isn't that awesome? No. You're telling me that if you're having a rough morning, you throw on your fucking undies, you go to put on your socks, and this is attached to it, and that doesn't make your day. Look at this.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

The little pom-pom. Man, it feels a lot like when I have like my wife's hair in like my t-shirt or something.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Like, it just bothers me.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

It's gifts, they're gifts. Oh, dude, I fucking love that. Um, hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social Club. My name is Aaron McCall. And I'm Joe Madison. This time I got to sit down with Hannah Berry. Uh, she's the founder of Lions and Rabbits. Uh, but more than that, she's someone who knows how to turn creativity into action. Uh, Hannah doesn't really talk about creativity like it belongs in a gallery or or Instagram feed, which obviously it does, but she she talks about it like a force, something that connects people, uh, changes neighborhoods, solves problems, moves things forward when when nothing else seems to.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Just like big impact stuff, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 2:48

Yeah. Yeah. And she's she's carrying around so much weight, but like it honestly feels like and and and maybe I'm projecting, or maybe it, you know, I don't know if my read is valid, but like it seems like it doesn't really bother her. So so we talked about creativity as it relates to community leadership uh and burnout, and and what happens when the work starts asking more of you than than you ever meant to give. Wow. Um, but you but you but you keep showing up anyways because that's the mission, that's what matters.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Right. You know, when you're doing things that are so heart-led and heartfelt, it it's like you're pulling from a different energy bank. I'm just speaking for myself. Yeah. Um, you know, this podcast being a really good example, I deeply and profoundly believe in this project that we get to be a part of in the fact that we get to find a spot in a creative community that is just so healthy and so helpful, and just again, it's just such a community that it's so much more important than anything else that I could ever request from it. But it demands a lot from my family. It demands a lot from my personal experience, and it asks a lot that my family schedule and and flow adjust accordingly, and vice versa. More so it's the podcast adjusting around my family.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I think what this thing is that we're doing or trying to do, or however you want to say that, is yeah, it's like it's like the true definition of like a passion project. Yes. I love doing this, and and yeah, it's not a um it's not like a monetary thing yet. Um but it's you know what we are gaining uh from meeting all these awesome people and and finding our spot in in the creative community and in the creative scene is um I don't know, man, it's special. Yeah, it feels good.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

It is special, I agree.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

And I look at what Hannah's doing with with Lions and Rabbits and the impact she has, and it's like, man, if we could if we could achieve even just Yes. A little bit of that, um, I I would be so happy and say we did what we came to do.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

Yeah. Leading with your heart, you're gonna be left in a situation where you're not asking yourself what if, but you also have to be very aware that those decisions have a ripple effect on the people around you.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

Yeah, for for for better or worse.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Exactly. Exactly. All right, so before we dive in, don't forget to follow wherever you're listening, leave a five-star review, and don't forget to tell your friends.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Also, this thing runs on merch sales, listener support, and uh reviews. So please go over to Bad Idea Social Cub, Bad Ideasocial Club.com. Uh, maybe buy something. Shipping is free. Can we have a little bad idea social cub mascot?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Just a little cub.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

I'll draw I'll draw something out, but yeah, that's totally the title, the Bad Idea Social Cub. Um okay, that's all I got. Here's uh here's my conversation with Hannah.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Yeah, I'm like disheveled Hannah.

SPEAKER_05 6:17

But dude, I'm so glad that we got to connect um over Creative Mornings because if I'm being completely honest, like I was a little bit intimidated to approach you about yeah, I know. It that's it's kind of my job as like a as like a cis straight white man to be intimidated by.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Eliminate other people.

SPEAKER_05 6:38

Yeah, because I don't know, you have this like strong presence, you're highly respected. I think what softened me up a little bit after getting to do creative mornings with you is I was like, oh, she's not a jawbreaker, she's an MM.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Oh my god.

unknown 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

I mean, yeah, I I like that.

SPEAKER_05 6:56

So so I want to know a little bit first about who you actually are. Um so so give me a little bit of the origin story.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Aquam as a human?

SPEAKER_05 7:05

Yeah, where'd you come from?

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Okay. I came from my mom and dad. No, I'm just kidding. Um, so my parents are originally from the east side of the state. Um, my siblings, I have an older brother, myself, and then a five-year gap, a little brother and little sister. We grew up in Lowell before like anything, no Meyer. Yeah. Hughes internet, like you know what I mean? Like tile up internet. Yeah. Um, but we lived on a river, so like we spent a lot of time outside. And I never really understood how much I care about nature until I didn't have that. Um, but we my parents are from the east side of the state, like I said, and they were like the only ones who came over here. So we kind of melted into other families, and I would say that's not very normal for a younger.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Uh, like there's this friend group or that friend group. So it's like my parents tried to like mesh in to those groups. Okay. But they never really had a group. So it was always like, we're gonna go hang out with those families or these families, or yeah, whatever. But then they would have like a 4th of July party and there would be hundreds of people. Um, my dad's a mechanic and owns a transmission repair shop and was very well respected by a lot of older men, and that I was like, oh, I have no idea that this exists. But when we grew up in Lowell, it was like a 45, well, it still is, it's like a 45 uh minute commute for him to go to work. So, like, once again, there's we weren't in that like 15-minute city that exists. Um, but then everybody was also on the east side of the state. So we would always go do all of our family events down there. When I was in high school, I was at Kent Skills Center and I went for cosmetology. So that was when I like really opened up my worldview. I also then was like, man, this is not what I want to do, but I really want to go to college. And I'm the first person in my family to go to college. And at the same time, my mom and I were going to college.

SPEAKER_05 9:09

So interesting.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Very interesting. Uh, she went to nursing college and I went to art college, right? But I went to GRCC. I had such a different experience because I lived in so many different spaces that when I really was like, oh, this is what I want to do, I think I want to do education. And it wasn't really that I want to do education, it was probably communication or so fast forward, I'm 20. I was transferring from GRCC to Kendall after having many credits that it couldn't transfer, which is fine. Oh, that's fine. But which is fine. But um I found out that I was having a baby and I was like, well, I have friends who've had babies. I'm fine. And I was in printmaking then, and then I had switched into art education. And I had switched into art education because I was like, I don't know how to be a printmaker and then have two jobs and still do this.

SPEAKER_06 10:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

But I also had taught swimming lessons, worked at a toy store, I got Outback Steakhouse under my belt, worked at the Anway Grand. Now I'm at the Winchester with a baby. And when I worked at the Winchester, I had Hayden, and she was only like six months old when I had had her. Paul and Jess, who own the Winchester, they had a kid who was only five months older, and they're older than me. And they were like, What are you doing? Like, who are you? I'm like, I just love world peace and art and hair and like color. Like, I'm like, I don't really know. And so they, I had actually served them a couple of times and had no idea a couple times and then knew the last time I did. Um, but when I had gone in there, they're like, hey, if you hate it here, will you tell us before you tell other people?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I'm like, oh yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah, I can do that. And honestly, that was like the trajectory of everything that I've been able to do. The difference from like why I talked about like my siblings' age gap is because my sister was 13 when I had a baby and my baby is 14.

SPEAKER_05 11:11

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

So that's when like it all full circles into everything that I'm still doing. But like the gap between some of my friends and me is the same gap as my sister and I, is the same gap as my sister and my daughter. So I think it's like this intergenerational thing is what I might just innately love and do. But throughout that, I've met so many people and everybody's been like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 11:38

And I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Right? Like, I don't know, but I do know this and this and this and this, flying the plane up here. And I think because I'm flying the plane up here, everybody's landing their planes and they're making their points, right? And through that, all of the carts have kind of fallen in, which would be worked at a bar. Had somebody who was like, Don't you want to do something different? Why don't you run a bar? I'm like, I went to school for this, but I would make more money here. Can I make a community art center? No, that wouldn't make money, but you could do this, this, and this. And so everybody very much helped me because I was in a space where I still am very young to be in. And part of what I think is like the most important part of that is these young people are still the people who are leading me too, right? Like my little sister. I'm like, and then she worked with us for this many years. So really everything that we've done is kind of, I would say, family-oriented, was able to open our gallery to so when you say we in our, you're you're we're talking about lions and rabbits. Yes, yep. Yeah. So lions and rabbits was my LLC that I painted under. And the reason that I made an LLC is because I worked at the Winchester and somebody was like, you need an LLC if you're gonna sell paintings. And then fast forward, you can hang whatever you want here. Okay, well, now you can have this building and you can hang earn it, but you have to rehab it. Well, now you got to get a liquor license. And the whole process has been everybody being like, This is economic development, Hannah. Your creativity can flourish with both, but you are community development. You lead these things, and economic development will follow it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 13:21

So, so it kind of sounds a little bit like what lions and rabbits is community development. Kind of doesn't sound like that was the plan out of the gate.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

No, I was like, I want to be an art gallery that hangs art and I want to have events inside. And then the neighborhood that I was in was like, Well, you came from a flourishing district. And I'm like, in between, I have a lot to say in between that. You can't do these shoppable districts when there's no place to shop, and also there's no economic development in between. So we were using the money that we had for the wedding venue to then recycle back into public art and all these things. And so the creative community really came behind Creston and was like, there might not be all of this money to do this, but this is what we want to do. And it was a pilot, which I would never call it. It was real community development in action that now has led into economic development for so many other people.

SPEAKER_05 14:18

Well, what is it about uh art and the and the creative community around it that keeps you um reinvesting and elevating?

SPEAKER_03 14:27

I deeply believe in the 17 social global missions, right? Like there are 17 things that could happen and if we invested in as a world that could change the trajectory of the entire world. And a lot of times people come to me and they're like, hey Hannah, do you have a solution for solving this crisis? And I'm like, I don't, but I know that there's a creative person who does. So for me, I'm like, why are we putting creative art, public space, all of these things, culture, the word culture, into one bucket when we could be putting it into this free-flowing waterfall of what the reality of all of the work that we're all doing collectively can accomplish. And I think creative leadership is that portion. So whether they want to make public art or change a curb cut because it's going to solve traffic dust, I'm like, no, that's creativity. But somebody has to think about it and actually do it first, right?

SPEAKER_05 15:31

I kind of feel like right now artists, artists are incredibly vulnerable between some of them. Well, I mean, I I think as a whole, yeah. Uh uh like even considering just from like an AI standpoint, right? I kind of feel like the world we live in is vulnerable right now, too. So I think it's probably more important now than any point in my life uh that artists have a platform to use their voices. And does that play into your motivation at all?

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Yeah, that's where I'm like zero poverty, ending hunger. What is land underwater? What is land above water? You know, like all of those things are the reason that people are so upset or so happy right now. And I'm sitting here being like, Some of these organizations have four employees that are here to make global social impact in a replicable scale, and all that is missing is actual capital to ha make it happen. That's not always the case. Capital is not always the case, but what I continue to see happen or I believe is happening, is you have all these cross-sector people that are like, what's the solution? What's the solution? And you have all these creative people who kind of need to stand back up, right? And I'm like, yes, I know we're vulnerable and we need rest and blah, blah, blah. But what I continue to say is I don't have, I'm 35. I don't usually have problems with women that are in their mid to late 40s or above that. It's this weird gap in between. Women in their 60s and 70s want to help me. What is vulnerability in that space? What is vulnerability in each neighborhood with race, ethnicity, all these things? And what is that math equation? That's where I'm like, creativity. I don't know math that well, but I can tell you all these weird gaps of missing data that would actually make a full story. And that's if if someone deeply, deeply cares about someone's opinion or what they're saying, then they're gonna put all of those factors into it, and they're not gonna be like, oh my gosh, everybody who now has a friend who has been impacted by X, then why? I'm like, yeah, no, like I worked at a chain restaurant when ice was coming in when I was 17. I remember that. I will never forget that. And now why are we so vulnerable for it when we just never have had that happen to us? You know what I mean? Okay, so we're talking about that, we're talking about war, we're talking about uh affordable housing, restoration of riverfront, place keeping instead of place making. And I'm like, can we ask everyone what the word culture means and then what is arts and culture? Because it's not a thing in the same way that we continue to talk about it as. And so reformation of education, deeply believe in it. Arts and culture work, workforce development, small business association, deeply believe in all of it. Can I do it? No, but I can help get the players to the game. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

You're a uh bridge, the glue.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Right. And I can't I can't stop anything and I can't start anything by myself, but I can try to get the right players in the game.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

So in in Grand Rapids, how long have you been doing this thing?

SPEAKER_03 19:18

I started Lions and Rabbids in 2016, but it was like not doing any nonprofit work. Well, we were doing nonprofit work out of the wedding venue, but we didn't start the nonprofit until 2022. But also, it was like an arts collective starts a nonprofit because we're like, hey, someone's gonna buy us this building that we already have a building, but we need a bigger one. And so where it is now is where I wanted it to be a very long time ago, but that's where I'm Grand Rapids culture and what its identification of what is Grand Rapids on a what is West Michigan culture. Yeah. And where do they want innovation?

SPEAKER_05 20:01

Right. And well, and you and in 2026, your your reach has gone quite a bit outside of Grand Rapids.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

But it's because creatives n need and desire work and they know that they can culturally shift everything visually.

unknown 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

What do you have going on in in uh in Detroit?

SPEAKER_03 20:21

We have a really cool project in Detroit. Um, the American Cancer Society has a walk by Central Station, and then there are a few other partners that we've been partnering with, like Detroit Month of Design, uh the Northe Neighborhood Associations, and et cetera. But the whole project started over there's this vacant building, nobody wants to purchase it for the price. Can we start to activate it to bring attention instead of blight beauty? Um, and Aya was an artist who lived up here. She now lives in Dearborn and she has a collective, it's called the Dearborn Fine Arts Collective. She has like over 200 artists that she Oh wow. Oh, she's she's badass. Like, I'm like, talk about rallying. You should meet Aya. And so that's where I'm like, there are people who can do all of this work everywhere. We don't have to do all of it. But Aya was, I want to do placemaking now, right? Like, what do how do I get into this field? And when we were walking through some of the areas, I'm like, look at the cracks in the sidewalk, look at this, this is this. Who are the partners we can involve? And so what has transpired is there's 116 windows that will be painted with cancer survivors from Corktown area or the surrounding neighborhoods. Oh, incredible. They're uh by local artists, photographed by a photographer that lives like literally right there. Um you'll be able to QR code to like window seven, and it might be like Sati Smith. And you'll be able to hear her story, the story of the artist that painted her. We have a massive mural going up, and it is so good. Ivan Montoya is the artist. Um, he also has an understudy who's 14 that's gonna be working on it with him because he's trying to develop this like five-stage mural program.

SPEAKER_05 22:04

Oh, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

The neighborhood association distributes over 220,000 pounds of food out of their kitchen, is not paid to do the work. It's her and her sister, and then volunteers. And so she's gonna have like this giant food waste dinner with all these creatives and community members. So the whole goal of it is like you can keep your place. It's your place. You can keep it, you can play snake in it, you can do, but like at the end of the day, the missing gap is facilitators that have the desire to listen and do the change that people want to see.

SPEAKER_05 22:38

So, is that kind of how you're scaling, kind of without losing the soul of the thing?

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Yeah, I mean, grown up is cool, but like creatives are cooler. Like, that's where I'm like, I just really deeply care about creativity as the highest form. Of thinking. And I know that creative people can solve all these problems. And I know that even if you run a neighborhood association, it doesn't mean you're not creative. If you're distributing 220,000 pounds of food out of your house, you are probably one of the most fucking creative people that I've ever met and sustainable people that I've ever met, whether it's in food sustainability, economic sustainability, desire, right? So how do we continue your platform with economic development because you are the community? The community is you, and now economic development can come in.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

What do you what do you think this kind of thing means to the to the artist involved? And not only that, but like also like the communities that they're leaving their mark on.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

I mean, every I I I can't speak for every artist, and that's where I continue or creative, right? But I can sit in a room with a company that will give us money for designers and talk to them about what an artist is, and then an artist is a designer. And then I can get them to the common understanding that creativity is the highest form of thinking. So what's your socioeconomic status? How many opportunities have you had? Right? Like everyone's on a different platform. And the biggest thing that I can say is there are thought leaders throughout the region that I'm like, just listen to them because they can tell you what this population has asked and desired for.

SPEAKER_05 24:18

Dude, you're carrying a lot of weight.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Everyone is carrying a lot of weight. I, if you listen to some of the stories I listen to while I get to have really great pasta, that's it's shitty. Like, that's where I'm like, it's not just me, there are people that work with us and in between all spaces. And I'm like, here's a solution. Go tap in. So a lot of my work is I'm sorry, this is happening, but here's my idea or someone else's idea that I've heard that I think might be a solution. So I'm in a lot of solution solving spaces where I don't listen to someone's day-to-day life ever outside of the big picture of my neighbor has this, this land is this, this person owns this. It's a lot of connection work. But at the end of the day, I'm not carrying the weight of somebody going hungry the same way as this person is, and she is not getting paid. And so that's where my biggest thing is is like if you're not paying the people who are working, then you're doing a disservice to your entire community. And so if I can get her paid, get her five fridges from fridges sitting in the ground, like literally just sitting there, then get the fridges. If there are 90 spaces for free tutoring, because I heard about it and I know seven people that I work with or bartend with or or or that need free tutoring for their kids, or someone else's kid needs it, it's about communication and knowledge sharing. And that's where I'm like, what is knowledge sharing at this point? There's so much communication and there's no actual action behind the communications.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

This episode is supported by Creative Mornings Grand Rapids, our local chapter in the world's largest face-to-face creative community. Creative Mornings believes everyone is creative and everyone is welcome. Their monthly lecture series is free and spans over 240 cities across 69 countries. Visit Creative Mornings.com to see what's going on with your local chapter. And by Review, West Michigan's Arts and Entertainment Guide. Find out what's going on in the world of local music, art, dining, events, and more with print magazines at over 500 locations, a weekly newsletter, and online stories at reviewwm.com. And by Merchants and Makers, a collective of local artists, makers, and small businesses, Merchants and Makers puts on markets across West Michigan connecting people with real artists and makers at events that include food trucks, live music, and local shopping. Visit merchantsandmakers.com for information on upcoming events and how to get involved.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

And so if you could have a placemaking plan where everyone's like, this is exactly what I want my spot to be, and you don't have to call it a placemaking plan. You can put anywhere that you want in between, whether you're happy or sad or whatever in between. But this is what our community says that they want, and it is not done by the city, and not a thousand people are interviewed. And this is not Grand Rapids, this is everywhere. A thousand people in a massive city interviewed for something, 28 listening sessions, and only a thousand people came. There's your problem. That's not the plan, right? So you're paying your community ambassadors to do the work. And when they have those community plans, then they should be able to go to all the corporate people and go, I'm not telling you that you have to invest 1.4% of your taxes into X. I'm showing you that this is what the community wants before we have a public hearing. Do you want to do it? Okay, you're invested in, welcome in. Okay, you're not invested in community. They said that they just are gonna buy.

SPEAKER_06 28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

You do your thing. So that's where it's a bigger, bigger, bigger picture for me than murals and events.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

Lions and Rabbits has changed significantly since it started.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Or we like kind of figured out the words to say. Or like we still don't. Like I'm like, I have this like Roy G. Biv thing. You've got red people who are connection and trust. You have yellow people who are creative, you have blue people who are growth. When you mix growth and creativity, it makes green, which is economic prosperity. When you mix red, which is trust, connection, whatever, and creativity, yellow, it makes orange. It's healthy spaces. So now you have healthy spaces and economic development. So everybody wins. It's a recyclable fund. And then I'm like, well, all I had to do is use color theory to find figure out economic development. And that is insane, right? Like it's insane. I'm sitting in rooms. I'm sitting in rooms where I'm like, did I just make this membership buy-in thing for a community investment fund? What is a CDFI? Oh, you guys should be a CDFI. So like the light switch has been activated, but real estate has always been in the back of my mind. And I it's not because I want to invest in real estate, it's because I like construction work. I love public art because I liked doing construction work and I love art. So it's like, yeah, it's it's that cross-fusion, that cross-sector where I'm like, I don't know what I like more, but I now can figure out how to make it make money. And when you can make it make money, and the community is behind it, then the community is making the money, right? So their money. Which then this chick doesn't work for free out of her kitchen. She has an incubator kitchen with a serve window.

SPEAKER_05 29:48

Right. And speaking of working for free, like I feel like that's why I have this like love-hate relationship with like art competitions and uh like contests and shit, like when people put out like submit your whatever the fuck for exposure or whatever bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

But it's like we'll start with anything that you submit onto someone else's platform is then they're owned by them. So that is where I start everything.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

That should be enough to say don't fucking do it, don't play.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Even an RFQ or a request for what is your work, I can then go reshow your work as an organization. That's why I'm like deeply, deeply engaged in activism for artists. Because if a Lamborghini is needing a light installation and someone has to be on an NDA for it and they can't show that work, I don't think that's wrong. Because I think that they, as Lamborghini paid for them to do that, public space is completely different. So why public space is paid for and how it's paid for needs to be very, very pressed on people who are using it for marketing advantage. Right. So that's where that public artist who wishes that they were in public space might not be able to be in public space because their portfolio doesn't showcase it. They can make the exact same thing two more times or something different or whatever, and be able to mass produce a different quality that nobody else can have because they had that capital from that private company. But that's the opposite from somebody who is a graffiti artist that everyone's like, oh my god, I love this city because it has graffiti and it I feel so cool, right? That's like how gentrification started. So that's where I'm like, okay, so now if you want to go put that car there, then how is that graffiti artist paid for your gentrification?

SPEAKER_05 31:46

Fuck.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

So don't submit for free. Don't don't ever.

SPEAKER_05 31:54

I fucking love that. Thank you for saying that. Right. I fucking love that.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Which is why I think that's why Lions and Rabbits exists, because I'm like bulldogs, if somebody can just create, like let them just create.

SPEAKER_05 32:05

Let's talk about balance for a minute. Okay. Do you have any?

SPEAKER_03 32:10

I think balance is an interesting word. Um, I like to research it in other languages. I even if I wasn't at work, I would go to an art museum and travel. So I once again, that's what I believe culture is. I believe culture is immersing yourself in other people's experiences. And the fact that I get to do that for my job and hopefully be able to represent it enough to be able to move things forward is such a privilege and for my family to be able to have that too. Right. Like my kid plays piano, I don't know how to play piano. But I've learned more from that than I did in my own dance when I was in whatever same ages, right? But then I also have learned intergenerationally more from that than anything. So like when you're at home, if you don't have those things that are continuing to pulse, then of course there's no such thing as balance because you're bored. I'm not bored. I'm never bored. I have a full life, and I'm very sorry for people who don't have a full life. And if I get the privilege to turn stuff off, which I do, that's not something that happens for almost anybody. Like, literally, what is it, like four percent of people in the entire world have been on an airplane?

SPEAKER_05 33:36

Really?

SPEAKER_03 33:37

I think it was something like that.

SPEAKER_05 33:38

Yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah. So those that's where I go statistically, we can all kindly fuck off for seriously. Like, I'm like, holy shit, America.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

Well, at what point, like what version of Lions and Rabbits did you look at and you're like, okay, this might this might work.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

No.

SPEAKER_05 33:56

Really?

SPEAKER_03 33:57

I would say um 2025. Like I had to slow down so much in 2024, 2025 to be like, this needs to exist, this needs to exist, you don't have to do that, this person can do that. You go give this away, you take what you won't receive and chill the fuck out for a little bit. Yeah. And it's the best thing that's happened to me. But I also was essentially part of a collective as the financial leader because I have the LLC or the nonprofit with all these older people helping me. Right. And then go back to, but if I am my innate creative, is this what I want? Because the only reason that I started to do this is because this is what we all wanted. And so that's where I go back and forth between does it actually make sense? I don't know. Like long term, I'm like a nonprofit should be able to dissolve because the service is done. There's a mission, there's a vision, and it's solved. And that is a very, very different view than economic development, right? So I think that is the best reality, right? Is when these missions are solved, when these things happen, however it folds into whatever ethrial pixie dust, right? Like it doesn't fucking matter to me. It just matters that the people who deeply care have the solutions, and it's their solutions with their chair at their table.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

Anything else we should talk about before we go topic hopping? I am gonna adjust this camera real quick. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Zip it, lock it, put it in your pocket.

SPEAKER_05 35:51

All right, let's go topic hopping. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Sounds like Hannah.

unknown 35:55

What?

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Rebel.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

Uh when you're gone, what do you hope people say about you? I should have warned of the of the TR shit.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I should have she's fun.

SPEAKER_05 36:13

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

That was fun. That was wild.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

That's so good. Um, finish the thought. Creativity requires consistency and energy.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

I think uh once again, it's like that rest mentality. I get it. Like, we've dealt with all this shit, but like not to be morbid, our houses aren't being bombed. So, like, kindly fuck off again. So energy will create the change that you want to see.

SPEAKER_05 36:40

What would your last meal be?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Oh man, I would say I would have some buttered chicken for sure, not super spicy. I would have an agroni, a salad with balsamic vinaigrette, and probably like two cookie skillets. Oh, dude, a fucking cookie skillet with the ice cream and- I was gonna say it might have to be like a chocolate chunky Ben and Jerry's, I don't know what the name is, kind of one. I don't know. There's this really good fall IPA though that make that uh Schwartz makes too that I jam on.

SPEAKER_05 37:26

What one is that?

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Just called fall IPA. Fall IPA. I actually don't know if it's actually called that, but it's it's a pure Michigan fall IPA. Great. So I don't think it has I think it has a name. It's called fall IPA.

SPEAKER_05 37:37

I love it. That's the name.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Fall into IPAs.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

Nobody knows. There's no way of knowing.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Leads.

SPEAKER_05 37:44

Uh Hannah, what is the best or the worst advice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_03 37:49

The worst advice is um to lean into someone's definition of femininity because I think it fucks women up really bad because that could mean your hair's done, you're wearing heels, you look and care about yourself, you care about what other people think you look like. Yeah, no fucking way.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

I kind of feel like, and maybe the this is whatever. This is gonna sound weird coming from like a dude talking about femininity, but like it. I I I would imagine that as as soon as somebody starts adhering to somebody else's idea of femininity, like you start losing yourself.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Think about you don't even have to talk about femininity, you could talk about creativity. Are you designing something for yourself or are you designing something for your client, right? That's not cooperation, right? If you're designing something for a client, you're taking their thoughts and translating them. If you can't do that, that's not your client's work, that's your work. So it's the same thing. You could go into I'm building a car and it's supposed to be this way, but it's not, right? Like everything, every form of thinking isn't acknowledged all of the time, and there could be a better solution than anybody actually knows. But there is always something that's going to be an underdog that is like groundhogging people back down.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

Right. What would your walk-up song be?

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Uh doses and mimosas.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

I don't know what. Sing it to me.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Oh no, I don't sing. That's anyone.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

I am not a karaoke queen. I am no fucking way. No way.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

Yeah, that would have been my answer too. Yeah. Um good.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Not good because I don't think that you can sing, but I'm like, no, don't hurt everyone.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

I can't. Don't hurt everyone.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

I'm definitely not gonna record it.

SPEAKER_05 39:47

Yes, I mean. Uh what makes you feel most like yourself?

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Colors and patterns. Like when I go somewhere and I'm like, man, my socks and my shoes match that floor, or that pattern on that wall matches that sunscape, like matching realities is like my favorite thing ever. That's the coolest. I also'm like one of those people, and I don't know if this is actually a thing, but I noticed it when I was young, and I didn't know that I had ADHD until I was older, but I everyone knew, but we didn't we didn't know. I'm a team makes sense, but like I register color before I register objects. I'll be like, that's black, that's black, that's black. Everything is this, and it's like part of having a photographic memory. So that's where I'm like, there are black lines over there. There's this, this, this, and this, these lines are facing that way. So I really think very geometrically, and I'm not math-oriented. So when it comes to color theory, it's like once again, I'm like, man, I think I can solve the problem through color theory.

SPEAKER_05 40:50

Oh, that kind of makes sense now. Weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

I'm like, patterns and patterns and patterns. And I was like, what are you wearing? Mom's like, Hannah. And I'm like, is it bad? She's like, you're going to meet with a foundation. I'm like, but it shows that I care. And she's like, no, it looks like you didn't get dressed today. Like, like, seriously, I'm like, I purposely wore these red shoes because this has red right here. And she's like, okay. But then my other friend was like, I see it.

SPEAKER_05 41:16

So I love that. So, so how are you showing up to a meeting with like a foundation? Are you like, this is this is me, this is what you get.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

I went to lunch with several wealthy people today and said, and here's Hannah when I walked in. Yeah, no. I mean, that's where I'm like, I do feel like my work is the most important now because I am authentic. I would say in 2024, I was like, what am I doing? And that was or I ended 2024. I'm like, this is never gonna work. And I was like, well, it's not working because you're you're chasing a goal with whomever wants to chase that goal when you know all of the people that you want to chase a goal. You just have to stand, you just have to put your two feet on the ground and shut the fuck up for a second and just breathe through it and then let them talk and then let somebody else talk in between or introduce them, right? Like, and that's that connection space where you're like, I'm not gonna solve all the problems, but you can keep going because there's somebody who solved your problem.

SPEAKER_05 42:24

Yeah. Do you have any regrets?

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Oh, yeah. Uh doing projects too fast without partners 110%. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

Just burning your ass out.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

No, thinking that my mind is in the right social mission without having the full outcome. So, like, I will go to the most basic thing, painting storm drains. If there is not a storm drain catch underneath that drain, and we are putting paint in that drain, the fuck are we doing? Talk about George Floyd and civil unrest. Who are your partners? Or is it just someone's paying for everyone to be paid? Uh no, that's not a social mission. Well, it's a part of it, but there is so much more impact that could be done. And that's why I'm like, I will wait two years and raise this much money for this one building for this one cause, because I know that bringing this many people together around one vacant building will make an actual change. And whether or not it's the change we all thought we were gonna see, it's gonna be the change we wish to see in some kind of way. So that is where I'm like an endowment at Lions and Rabbits in 2022 would have been the dumbest thing anybody could have done. But there are people who wanted to do it because it was cool and sexy and whatever in between, where I'm like, they can still go away. The people who are now like sustainability, creativity. That's where I'm like all day. All day come in, say whatever you want about me to me, find a solution.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

That's so great. I have one more question for you.

unknown 43:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

Are you okay?

SPEAKER_03 44:01

I'm so good. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah, I have my days. I would say I'm living life, like I said earlier, to the fullest at this point. I would say I was not okay in 2024, 2025. And that's where I watch all my friends and I'm like, how do we get them back up? Death is inevitable in so many levels, and I've lost people way too young. Trauma, actually, I would say stark inequity, sense of belonging, collective trauma. If you can solve those three social issues, then you can have innate happiness. And so where I know I can do my work, I know I can live, is in between spaces where a lot of other people can't. And so if we can continue to piggyback off of each other, then we're good. But I'm not afraid to find people to piggyback. Back off of. And that's where I'm like, I'm good now. I was not there in 2024. I'm like, yeah, you're good. Let's bring you in. You're not good. Let's cast surreal. Right. Like there's somebody who helps you.

SPEAKER_05 45:06

And I I admire the absolute shit out of everything you're doing. I like I like like I hope you realize that you're like do that, like you're making actual change and that things are happening. And um I do it's uh uh appreciated on so many levels from so many perspectives.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

So it's a it's teams, like it's not just then that's where I'm like, we're small, but like the mighty teams are the ones who are like, anybody see that neighborhood association who did all that work?

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Can we paint that basketball court with Edwin for this much money?

SPEAKER_03 45:38

That's where I'm like, it's collaboration, and I deeply believe in the creatives that are doing the work, regardless of what their job is. And my team, our team, would not be working there if they didn't feel the same way. You know what I mean? Like nobody does it because they're gonna get rich. Right. Like they're like, no, this actually will change the world, and then we'll have equity. And then we and so, like, for us to understand that it's not gonna potentially shift in our lifetime is a different mindset than a Christian mindset of West Michigan. So that's where I go back to I don't like that rapturism isn't in my mind. It's like make a better life for your kid, make sure that your kid is the better version of you. That's it. That's all you can do. And that's where it's like you just have to leave it. And it's not that you're leaving people because you're not leaving people, you are understanding what you wake up for.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

I don't even know what to say.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Everyone to have hope. Everyone should have hope because everyone has had their rock bottom, but yeah, someone's had a worse.

SPEAKER_05 46:48

Um, before we get out of here, uh, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Lionsandrabbits.com. Instagram.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

I love it.

unknown 46:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:56

All right, dude. Hannah, thank you again. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Let's get out of here. All right.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Chicken Todd of being all these noises in my head. I can't seem to make them go away.

SPEAKER_05 47:09

Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made possible by merch sales, reviews, and listener support. And is created and hosted by me, graphic designer Aaron McCall, and co-hosted by photographer Joe Madison. Music is noises by Mike Maids in the branches. Get Bad Idea Social Club wherever you get your podcasts.