Mark Stein: If It Kills Me

Mark Stein (artist, illustrator) joins Aaron McCall to talk about what it takes to go all in on your work and the cost of pushing too hard. He gets into growing up on cartoons, punk and skate culture, the wake-up calls that changed everything, and why being a lone wolf will only get you so far. They talk about finding creative community, imposter syndrome, getting out from behind your desk, and why if it’s not hard, you’re probably not trying hard enough. This is a conversation about the slow build, the kind that takes until your late 30s to really catch fire, and the kind of stubbornness it takes to keep it burning.

Keep up with Mark Stein:
steinbydesign.com⁠
IG: ⁠@steinbydesign

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This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
Revue
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Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
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Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
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Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
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Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
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Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
badideasocialclub.com
IG: @badideasocialclub

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Being a creative is your whole life. It's your whole life. Everything I try to do, I try to be creative with without sounding like a dick, you know what I mean? But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad I. Hey, do you want to do this one?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah, I do want to do this one. Yeah, go ahead. Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social Club. I'm Joe Madison.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

And I'm Aaron McCall. Um, we we were planning on keeping this season like uh pretty local, you know, at least like at least Michigan, because this is kind of our first outing for uh uh video, and like it's really just kind of a thing that like I need to learn this process, so I want to do it as much in person as I possibly can.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Yeah, simplify the areas that we can simplify.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah, and then uh Mark Stein fucked everything up in the best way possible. Yeah, so so Mark's an illustrator and graphic designer, and there was just something about his work that just like wouldn't leave me alone, like it just wouldn't get out of my head. Um, and it and and it it reminds me of my childhood, uh, but in a more um aggressive and expressive way. Um like a like in a punk rock 90s cartoon kind of way, but like like the cartoons that were like not made for kids, but like they were just shown to us like it was, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

That's my favorite shit. Yeah, that that was my shit. So I love that. That that still shows up in my life nowadays. It's like why I love over-detailed, complicated illustration is because of like like Renin Stimpy, which first 100% was not for kids. No, it was disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

We uh uh we talk about that too, but um Mark piped in from Gold Coast Australia, our our first international guest, and we talked about uh growing up with that kind of visual language and like how it just sticks to you, and um, you know, how it turns out to evolve into something ownable and that is just yours. Um we got into developing a style, uh, where you decide to just leave something alone, um, and also and also pushing yourself too far, like the the the burnout, um losing the spark and figuring out how to how to keep showing up without just running yourself into the ground.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

I think we grew up in a time where subtlety was not a thing when it comes to like artwork and design, like everything was very like just in your face and loud and bright and moving, and and I think that that says a lot about like what I need to have something communicated nowadays is like subtlety is hard for me. Do you find it hard? Do you struggle with that at all?

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Um, you know, I actually I think as a designer, uh I I try to lean more minimalist most of the time. And I think I think what I you know, I think I've I've been doing it for so long. Uh I'm in this phase now where I'm trying to go the other way. Cool. And trying to be less subtle and to get more like loud and and fucky, you know?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I dig that. I love that. It seems to me that the time you get most excited about your work is when it almost directly links itself to the stuff you used to love. So like the like the stuff you do for like our brewery and like all of the stuff that like just goes back into your childhood. Like, that's the shit.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Well, dude, it's funny, it's funny you mention our brewing because like we we you know they're they're big masters of the universe, guys, right? And like I could not be more fucking stoked about this movie that's coming out. This is not a plug, this is not a thing. Like, we're not big enough for people to pay me for that, but I'm so fucking stoked. We're going. Yeah, I'm dressing up. We're gonna be going. Ooh, or are we dressing down?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna look good either way, damn it. Yeah, we're going. I'm super stoked about it too. Yeah, I also feel that when I can link my work back to the things that I used to love, that's when it's like I know I'm doing it right. Is at the end of the day, as artists, if we're not tapping into what we think is really cool and interesting and what has influenced us over the years, like what are we? You could Google search.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Yeah, that's got to be the first like filter, right? Like, do I like this? And you know, like early in my career too, like I was I spent so much time just like floundering trying to make what I thought people wanted. Because I mean, I mean, if we're being honest, I was in an environment where that was the norm that was encouraged, and that sucks, and then I got the fuck out of there. Yeah, it took me like five years, but I got the fuck out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But man, like I am, I am in a spot now where like I there is no way that I'm gonna bring something to the table that I am not in love with.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

That's a great spot to be in.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

But then also the payoff is that like, you know, it's the vulnerability, and like I might get my heart broken, but I also might fight you about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, that's right. Which you love to do anyways. I do. You love getting in the ring.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

You know what's interesting, and you've just made me realize this, is early, early on when I started shooting, I was literally just shooting for myself. And I found people gravitate towards that and they like appreciated my work because of that. I don't, I can't think of a defining moment, but there was a moment when I started like getting in my head and thinking, like, well, what do I need to be shooting for other people? And I felt, I felt like a pull away from my work from people. Like I felt like I was reaching less people. And now over the course of the last, I don't know, I don't even know how long, but like five years or so, I'm fully tapped into what I think is cool and loving the work I'm doing. And I'm watching our business like I'm really watching our business grow because of it.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Dude, it's I mean, I've said this, I've said this a thousand times, but it's like people can smell the bullshit, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Well, before we dive in, don't forget to follow wherever you're listening, leave a five-star review, and don't forget to tell your friends.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Also, uh, this thing runs off of merch sales and listener support and reviews. Um, go do all that stuff. We'll love you forever for it. Um, and here's my uh here's my conversation with Mark Stein, Stein by Design. Dude, I've I've never been as unsure and uncomfortable about maybe anything in my life as I was about making sure that like I got the time conversion right.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, I checked this line. I thought uh I think it's 11 o'clock, and then I'd because my partner's American and I'm sorry, my wife's American, and she's like checked through your time schedule, and I'm like, I think it's 10 o'clock, and then you sent that email through. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Yeah, I would dude, I was sitting there and I was like, wait a minute, we just had a time change. I bet you that biffed everything up. Had to have. Nah, it's all good. Had to have, but yeah, man, like I said, like I I uh I don't know anything about you. You're you're so like any any details about you are so sparse on the internet, man.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, I'm a bit of a phantom. I'm trying to get more obviously online more, but um yeah, I didn't start posting my artwork till probably properly until like five years ago.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Yeah, really? Yeah, it's been really good, but what was what was the push to kind of put it out there?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Oh, just basically, yeah, like I'm 41, turning 42 this year, and just life's too short. And yeah, working an older job back then, and it kind of changed my perception on things. So I had the cliche thing, like, you know, I'm driving to work. I always had artwork since I was a kid. Like I've started when I was seven years old, and it's always been my happy place with what I do. And yeah, always had on the back burner doing jobs here and there for people, and then yeah, driving to work one day, and I literally got that universal push from a truck, and yeah, totally totally right off my car, and then I was like, ah, this is the the epiphany moment, and yeah, just started pushing it and um connecting because I've always been a lone wolf as most creatives are, and connected with some community, which was really good for me and to boost my confidence, and yeah, just started putting it out slowly, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

What what is the uh creative community like in Australia?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Oh, it's huge, it's awesome. Yeah, like my like I've got uh a Discord group with like one of designers and artists and stuff, and it's probably about 10 of us, and we're called the Flaming Gulars, which is really funny, and yeah, we just send through um ideas, pricing, but just boost each other up, which is awesome. And I never had that because I was always like, Man, I'm the only one that does this stuff, like that's what most creatives think, and then you like discover new people, and you're like, fuck, there's actually more people out here like this, and it's like you know, when you get that spark of knowledge, you're like, Oh shit, yeah, we can help and push off each other and whatever. So, yeah, it's basically yeah, I'm like I'm three quarters part-time artist, and then I've got a two-day day job just to get away.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

I was just gonna say, what does that mean? What does that mean that you're a part-time artist?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

So basically, two days a week I have another job, and then this year I'm gonna try and convert to go full-time, but just learning my way again. So, but it's awesome. Like, I've had really good feedback about my work and um opportunities of lately, which has been great. So it's like, well, you know, if anyone else can do it, I can do it, but I just gotta grind harder.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

So and you're like you're like pulling in some attention from like some pretty serious clients, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Lately, yeah. I've actually been really blown away. I'm like, what? And I got a message, like I did a job, I probably can't mention it just yet. Um, but yeah, it's from a band that I've grown up with, and I was like, wow, okay, cool. And that was just a DM, and I was like, fuck, that's unreal. Like that, I can't fathom it at the time. Yeah. So then I actually yeah, did it, completed it, was all good. And then I sit back when I finish, and I'm like, wow, if I could tell my 14-year-old self that, that's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Yeah, he's never gonna believe it.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

No, he'd be so stoked. And um, yeah, so just keep plugging, but it's all about a balance. Like, obviously, a few years ago when I got into it, I was like, I'm gonna do this. So I was like getting up at four o'clock and I was like, I'm gonna draw, I'm gonna draw, I'm gonna draw. And there's that balance of burnout. Yeah, and I actually yeah, I burnt myself out that bad. I ended up in hospital.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

And yeah, I had this little thing called atrofibulation, it's like in a regular heartbeat. Like I'm a healthy guy, but because I was drawing and putting my life on the line, basically. And yeah, so after that I learned that balance of yeah, know the know the um warning signs before they kick in if you're going too hard. And it's just little things like when you're drawing, you you get stuck in, you know, you don't hydrate properly, or you don't, you know, you just want to keep going.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah, or you're only sleeping till 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

and well, I used to I've worked like yeah, all different shifts over my life and done night like nights, afternoons, mornings, but now I'm back to mornings, which is cool. But yeah, I used to love getting up and I used to live in the high rise near the ocean and I used to have a coffee and like watch the sunrise and then kick right in, which was great. But then yeah, I'd get to like 11 o'clock and like I have no breakfast. And then you know, it all stems from there. So yeah, keeping your yeah, keeping your daily routine really helps, which is cool.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I feel like you kind of gotta be bitch slapped a little bit to kind of be like, I mean, well I guess you were because you stressed yourself out so fucking hard you went to the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yeah, and that's the only way I learned. So, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

So let's go back a little bit. I want to know about your origin story, um, because I think every kid draws, right? Um but you know, some of us can't let it go for uh for for better or worse. You know, some of us are just are just wired for it. So what uh what what do you think kept you in from you know starting to draw at seven years old to 41?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Jeez, I think um so basically obviously every kid watches cartoons, and that's where my love started. So I used to watch like Red and the Stimpy, Mo Rocco's Modern Life, and that just was like fuck, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

And then I'm like 41, so I'm pre-internet age. So I used to like tape cartoons on VHS. This is this is a spin out, and then I'd pause it, and then I'd draw because we didn't have YouTube or tutorials or anything. So I used to pause it and then draw expressions on faces, and that love was like from there, and then like I'd buy magazines and then I'd draw from that. Basically, it was just always in the back of my mind. I always did it. Uh, I did it through high school. I was that typical non-jock guy that always used to draw. Like, I'd get along with everyone, and I used to have parties in my place, and everyone would be say watching football, and I'd be up the back drawing. That's just my where I felt comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

I love that, dude. You're my people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

I can tell it's awesome. Um so yeah, I did that through high school. Um, a lot of people can see like tattoo references in my work, and they're like, Why don't you be a tattooist? And I was like, uh, and I started working at like 18. I was like, oh no, it's just not my thing, and I didn't resonate with it. Um, nothing against tattoo at all.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

But dude, tattooing somebody, the idea of tattooing somebody scares the shit out of me. Yeah that's like that's like high stakes stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah, you know, and like I know my hand, like she's gonna it's it's weird stuff is gonna happen, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Skin is different to paper. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, so basically drew throughout high school, just loved it. Um did like two up, like I'm self-taught, I've never been like trained or anything like that, and that's just the love of it and the passion of since I've been a kid. In high school, I took like two classes where it was like main art, which I found really, you know, boring. And there's another thing called like design and action, which was like just do your thing and just draw whatever. And then I'd get to a point where I wasn't doing it in class, but I'd love doing it at home, and then I'd bring my stuff in from at home and I'd get marked like that. Because that was my comfy. Um, yeah, so yeah, didn't draw for 10 years, started drumming, loved that. Um, and then slowly got back into drawing, and then yeah, probably what am I now, 41, probably 36. I was like, nah, like you've been doing it all your life. It's like a fire starts when you're a little kid, yeah. And you find that spark and now realize to keep that fire burning, and it's repetition. Like you've gotta every day kind of do something to an extent. And yeah, basically, if I don't do something every day, I feel like that that fire is kind of going like you kind of feel like you're falling behind a little bit, or uh, or like uh you're kind of being snuffed out, yeah. But I don't know, just like as I said, connecting with other artists has really helped me a lot. And yeah, just like you know, learning how they struggle with things, and it's like a lot similar to me, and it's like you know, we're all human at the end of the day, but I still like drawing so long, I still find drawing hard, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Because I always do it, it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah. Because like I never sit there and go, I'm an artist. I never I never sit there and say that because I'm always wanting to learn. And if I don't find it difficult to do, it means that I'm not trying to, I'm not doing my best, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah, yeah, you're not pushing yourself enough.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, yeah. So like if I've you know, we all have those. So we have a client come along and we go, they give us our ideas and we go, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. And then we sit down on the day and we're like pumped, and there's that first 30 minutes where you're like, fuck, you know, what are you gonna do with it? And I think about I think about projects two days before I go in. So I just think about it, and that's just how my brain works. And then yeah, I sit down, there's that half an hour of like, you know, what am I gonna do? And then as soon as you start drawing for like five minutes, you're like, oh yeah, cool. And it all starts, yeah, yeah. Um, so basically, yeah, art has always been in my bones ever since I was a kid, and like I love it, like it's just a world, you know, it's that typical saying, a world without art, art is just uh, you know. Yeah, and it goes for like everything. Like, um, you know, if you're into instruments or you're into pottery or into gardening, I think being creative is awesome for your mind, like it is. Yeah, it really is. And yeah, everyone should just pick up some form of being creative, I think.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Talk to me a little bit about some more of the uh uh earlier influences, right? Like, I mean you talked about Ren and Stimpy and you know magazines and stuff, but there's a very clear uh uh punk and skate kind of culture influence, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Alright, cool. So basically, um born in the 80s, grew up in the 90s, um, and started skateboarding at the age of I'd say 13 and heavily into skateboarding. So I'd skateboard for like six hours a day, every day. And I was pushing to get sponsored, and I loved it, like absolutely loved it. And I think that scene and I stumbled across skateboard graphics, and that just melded awesomely. And I used to source like cool um skateboard brands, shirts from America that had wicked graphics, and I was like, Yeah, cool, I want that. So that inspired me. Um started getting into punk music when I was 12, and like my first ever gig that I ever been to in my life was Mel and Collin when I was like 13.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

And that was, you know, I got the ball rolling, and then um, so yeah, skate uh skating and punk music goes hand in hand with my style. And then I think when I started drumming a bit later, I got into more heavier stuff because I liked like double kicks and all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

And some bit of a like I chop between metal and then I go back to punk and then I go through like weeks later. Um, but yeah, skateboarding and punk music, you probably hear it from everyone that's into it. It's like it's art, it's all it's all connected.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Something I love about like punk and skate culture and stuff is that like it doesn't really ask for permission for anything. And um, as an outsider looking at your work, like it's it screams that man. It's so um, I don't know, like like your work is so free and like kind of fucked up in the coolest ways. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

I like that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Uh so like at this point in your career, like what do you what do you are you trying to say anything with your work?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Um I try to like, you know, obviously with artists as like light and dark and all that kind of thing, but I don't really get too far into it. I just like to make cool shit and have fun with it and basically have a bit of fun in my work if you can see it. Like, you know, say it's a skull or whatever, like it could be dark. Most people see that, but I like to have a bit of fun with it, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think that's where watching cartoons come into play. So like I'm trying to learn more um stylization in my work, and that's really difficult to do, like things that are tweaked and things that are warped, and it just adds more character. But yeah, so basically, you know, if you look at my artwork and you like it or appreciate it, it's cool, but more fun, like more more spirit, more childlike spirit. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Yeah, what do you what do you hope people get out of it?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Basically, I've been really thinking about changing to go to mural work. That's what I want to do.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, that's a scary jump. Oh, I'm keen for it. Um, to navigate it, I'm learning. So basically, I just want to be diverse. I don't want to be stuck on a screen. I don't. Yeah. And you know, working on you know, working on screens for hours, it just fries your brain. So basically, um, I don't know if you've seen some of the other stuff I've been doing, which is like um wood cutouts and stuff. Yeah. And I thought that's really fun. So that's another thing I can do. Um, physical artwork, which is fun because you can do digital stuff, print it, but handmade originals is really, really cool. And I spend like yeah, a few weeks on those, like per thing. That thing behind me that took me like on and off about two and a half weeks.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Dude, honestly, I thought you were gonna stay longer.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

I'd say that's pretty, pretty um generous two and a half weeks, but that's a two layer, so I had to cut out all the little pieces by hand with a jigsaw.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

No shit.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, so and I was new, like, because I wanted that like 3D dimension, and I think doing stuff like that has actually got me interested in like art installations as well and making like 3D kind of pieces. But yeah, so basically, without rambling, I want to like Have multiple things I can do, but yeah, I think murals are really, really, really cool. I did one about two years ago to make screenshot uh screen printing plays, and yeah, it was so much fun. It took me like 60 hours to do because it was like eight meters by six meters.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

And he's into like chopper bikes and like uh reapers and stuff, so I did a big one across his wall. And yeah, it was an awesome learning curve. I did one when I was younger, um, was all like yeah, in my bedroom and like making it all like sofa kind of stuff. But yeah, I don't know. I got really inspired about big pieces of artwork, and that's where I'd like to take it.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

So I I signed on to do a uh to do a mural last summer, and I dude, I put it off and I put it off because I like I got I got scared, I think. You know, like I got uh I got intimidated and it got the best of me. Like I backed out like a fucking coward. Um, you know, try to clean up whatever reason, you know, that is not my fault for why I didn't do it. But uh do you do you ever get uh do you ever get intimidated by anything you you see kind of coming down the way?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Oh like imposter syndrome, it always kicks in, man. Like it always kicks in, and you're sitting there and you're like, uh, I want to do it. And then you get a chance and you're like, then I kind of rule it out and I'm like, I have to do it. Like, if it's gonna kill me, I have to do it. So, but yeah, when I tackled that wall, I was like, you know, Matt's really, really cool. So we had a great relationship and I walked in there, and then when it actually came time to do it, I was like, oh, okay, this is pretty big.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

You're like, oh, it's a big wall.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And you know, I I can't work in there till like 1 a.m. tunes cranking and stuff like that, but just learning, like as soon as you get over that first five minutes, then you kind of just start you start working and you have no time to think, you just work, work, work, work. But yeah, it's scary. Like, like when I started drawing, I mean, doing like clients' works and stuff like that. You just get to a point where you or when you start it, you're like, I don't want to fuck it up. I always want to do the best thing I can for someone, even if I work overtime, always, because I don't want to put out work that I'm not completely proud of.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

You can't.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

No, you can't. And there are times you can't get it perfect, but you can go to sleep and not saying that's the best that I can do, and that's that's all you can do.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Your identity and um and your and your thoughts and the thing that you're that you're making kind of get all tangled together. So like what's that what's that relationship like for you? Like, is there a line between you know Mark as a Mark as a person, Mark as a as a creative?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Well, yeah, everyone's their own being and what they do on different things, but being a creative is your whole life. It's your whole life. Like I everything I try to do, I try to be creative with without sounding like a dick, you know what I mean? But yeah. Without being like, yeah, I'm fine, but yeah. Um basically just be yourself and do what you do what you do and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

So so then outside of the construct too of uh of normal designer client relationships or you or you're making something for yourself after work hours, like how how are you using that creative energy? Like what do you what gets it? Who gets it?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

It's a balance, like you gotta have you know, time for your you know, your family, your life, and your art. If I've got a job on, then I'm 100% in on that job until it's like okay, I gotta have dinner and then you know that's it for the day. And then when that job finishes, and then I have say like a little bit of time in between the next job, that's when I'm thinking personal projects. And I think personal projects are very, very good for yourself because then you're not stuck doing job, job, job, job, job, and you have no creative freedom for yourself. So yeah, and then it's just a balance with everything like go to bed early, because I think nothing after 9 30, 10 o'clock is gonna work out, so you just go to sleep. Yeah, it's really like my wife, like my wife, she's very structured and routinely, so she always she gets me into gear, which I need, so it's nice.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Dude, I love that. Um speaking of balance though, um, how are you achieving balance? Like, because you know, like you just said, like at 9 30, 10 o'clock, shut it down, whatever, but like that's not always easy to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

You just have to wind down, and like obviously, if I'm in bed, yeah. You think Tell me your secrets. How do you get out of it? That's what I need. Eat a big dinner.

unknown 27:42

Yeah, done.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Eat a big dinner, get full, get get nappy, and go to bed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Well, real quick, I should have asked. Say your name so I know how to say it correctly, so I don't look like an asshole.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Like the German beer, Stein.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Are you a beer guy?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yeah, so if I'm gonna drink a beer, I'd be like IPA kind of guy.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Yeah, dude, same. Yeah, same. You do some like label work too, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, it's really cool. I um been working, I've just finished one that hasn't come out, but it's uh a company called Shred in California. It's a brewery, and yeah, I got a prize to do one a few months back, and I was absolutely stoked because being an artist, you always want to get on a beer can. Yeah, it's just it's a tick.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

And yeah, it's it's one of the coolest things you can do.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah, definitely. And yeah, so I did the first one, and it's like yeah, real skate graphic, kind of what's it called? Gooseberry garden. So I did like these kind of creepy vines and this like Abyss kind of skull, yeah. Real like blues and like fluorescent greens and stuff like that. So yeah, really stoked with that. Uh, I got a few friends that do beer can work in Australia, and yeah, in Australia, like beer can artists are huge. Like, there's every brewery around the corner in Australia that just wants to keep making cool art. Um, so yeah, to like not even work in Australia breweries, I've gone straight to America, which is I find that really, really cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

The next beer can is like 420 related. Yeah, fuck yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Does it have anything extra in it?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

No.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

No, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Oh man, dude, so where I live in uh Grand Rapids, Michigan, like I think it's like eight years or something like that, maybe longer, uh, has been recognized as Beer City USA. Uh we have like the most breweries per capita or whatever. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I don't know how we get that title, but there's a shit ton of breweries. Yeah. Doing um art for beer has been like like like it's been a fun thing for me. Um so to kind of go back to what we were talking about earlier about like uh finding that creative community. There is actually a um there's a conference in Chicago called the Bop Conference. And like I've I've never really met other designers who like make stuff for beer, you know? But it's like when you walk in a room and then and then there's 200 other beer designers in there, dude. That like sense of community is just it's gnarly. It's gnarly.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

You weren't sleep that night, your brain's just on fire after talking.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Yeah, yeah. And it's like uh, you know, you're kind of looking at what everybody else is doing and trying to be like not be weird with it, you know? Like uh, like here, let me tell you this story. So uh I went out there a couple years ago, and it was right uh right after COVID, right? So uh I got socially awkward and kind of weird for a few minutes coming out of there, like I forgot how to be, you know, and uh and I was kind of texting with my wife. We were at this like mixer and stuff before the conference, and I was like, I know these are my people, like I just gotta like, you know, I gotta get my head out of my ass a little bit and go go talk to somebody. And and uh she's like, just go find somebody, like just so you know, go find somebody that looks cool, strike up a conversation. And dude, as far as I got was like like this one dude's kind of like walking toward me, and I start to kind of and he just keeps walking, and I'm like, fuck me, dude. I'm out. I just went back to the hotel room.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yeah, it's hard, it's like you know, we just get a neuron psyche kind of thing, and it's like we're all just the same people, you know what we're doing. And then you like say you talk to someone like telly off topic, you talk to someone that you admire on it like Instagram, and you're like, oh, but then like we're all the same. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Yeah, dude, I love it. Um Mark, is there anything else we should talk about before we go tapic happin'?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Can't think of anything at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Alright, well then let's do it. When you're gone, what do you hope people say about you?

SPEAKER_01 32:02

I'll hope people would say that I'm easygoing and laid back. Um that I treated people with the same amount of respect that I'd want to be treated.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Um, finish the thought. Creativity requires passion and patience. Expand on that.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Have the patience to learn your craft and have the fire and the passion to keep it going.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

So good. Um what what would your last meal be?

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Ooh. Um probably like uh ribeye with like mushroom sauce or something.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Yeah, fucking a right, dude. Um what's the what's the best or the worst advice that you've ever received?

SPEAKER_01 32:50

It's just a hobby or it's a pipe dream.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Oh dude, I could I would I could backhand somebody.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah. You know, it will be if you're not gonna push it. Like it's just gonna be a faded dream if you're not gonna push it. So if you want it, go get it.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

At some point the training wheels have to come off, right? So so when when did things get serious for you?

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Probably late 30s, to be honest. Like that I actually was gonna be like, yeah, I need to I need to do this because it deep inside me was always I had the purpose of doing artwork, but I need to do this for the rest, like I want to do this for the rest of my life, and I need to pull my finger out. So we all go through life, we do certain things, different roads or whatever. But then you're like, this is what I'm here for, like this is why I want to do what I do, and you know, that's in my mind that's the only thing I'm half decent at. So I need to do what I love, because that's what bring me happiness at the end of the day. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Oh, that's the fucking best. Um what would your walk-up song be? What's your walk-up song?

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Where am I walking into?

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Fucking anywhere you want.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Yeah, probably that one.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Or if it's like a bigger thing like Black Dahlia Murder or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Oh, so you're like, you're not fucking around.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

I have different ranges, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Um Mark, what what makes you feel most like yourself?

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Um, that's a tough question. Feels like myself.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

When I give this would be like an art base question, but when I give someone something that I've created and seen it in their face, and if they're super stoked with that, then that's how I feel my best self.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Dude, that that feeling doesn't get old. It just doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

It gets better and better.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

But on the opposite side of that, that fucking sucks. I gifted my brother a print because he was he was really uh instrumental in like encouraging me to like break off on my own and and uh you know open up an online shop and all that fun stuff. So as soon as like it was a real thing, like I I gifted him a you know, I gifted him a print and um then he got uh then he got divorced and I came over to help him move. And that son of a bitch, like he the print was just stuffed under his bed, just beat to dog shit. So now I'm like now I'm all like shy about like do I want to give somebody artwork, do I want to gift it, or am I being like presumptuous like they give a shit?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

If it makes you feel good in the moment, that should be all that matters, I think.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

My man, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Because whatever happens happens to it and you got no control of it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

God, I love that. Mark, do you have any regrets?

SPEAKER_02 36:14

No, probably starting uh uh earlier, and I couldn't say I was seven years old, so I couldn't really start it anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

No, no, I'd like to live a life of no regrets because then that just taints you. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Alright, I got I got one more question for you. Are you okay?

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Yep. Yeah, yeah, I'm happy. I'm actually happy. Yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Good man. I love that. Dude, thank you for doing this. It was uh a freaking treat to uh come out and hang out with you for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

No, it's absolutely pleasure, man. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah, uh before we go, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 36:56

So I'm in the process of doing a new website, so basically the easiest way to get and see my stuff will be Instagram. That would be the best way to do it at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Um yeah, so that's at Steinby Design, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah, at Steinby Design or Steinbydesign.art at gmail.com would be my best email. Um, so yeah, if you want to reach out, you want to get some work done, hit me up. I'm keen and let's create something cool together.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Dude, I love it. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it, man.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

You go have a lovely afternoon. I'm gonna go to bed.

unknown 37:33

All right, man.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

It's almost lunchtime.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

It's almost lunchtime. It's gonna have some lunch.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Yeah, I love it, dude. All right, man, let's get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Uh thanks, man.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

Getting tired of hearing all these noises in my head. I can't even make them go away.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made possible by merch sales, reviews, and listener support. It is created and hosted by me, graphic designer Ed McCall, and co-hosted by photographer Gil Madison. Music is noises by Mike making the branches. Get Bad Idea Social Club wherever you take your podcast.